tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post5069232095329386982..comments2012-01-16T22:10:15.764-06:00Comments on Sweet Jazzy Cat 2: Obama and his pastor: connecting the dotsjazzycathttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-56935018552327903212008-03-29T09:18:00.000-05:002008-03-29T09:18:00.000-05:00Loren,I did a post on these questions rather than ...Loren,<BR/>I did a post on these questions rather than have a long comment....jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-80035023394524481092008-03-29T06:37:00.000-05:002008-03-29T06:37:00.000-05:00Is there anything really wrong with being a Social...Is there anything really wrong with being a Socialist? Our own socialist party, (the Labour party) have been responsible for bringing in such things as the National Health Service, a minimum wage, proper working hours, fair pay for work, equal wages for women and a lot more. This is why I am a Socialist. I want to work for a fairer community.<BR/><BR/>If Obama does become president, how does that fare with your opinion at rulers of a country are God ordained. Will your conscience allow you to follow, respect him and agree that he is the right man?<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the further comments on global warming. I'm off now to take my dog for a walk before it rains yet again. See you later!lorenzothellamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10248039576046971460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-12627513255018102802008-03-28T17:18:00.000-05:002008-03-28T17:18:00.000-05:00Loren,You said...I am relieved that global warming...Loren,<BR/>You said...<EM>I am relieved that global warming isn't taking place.</EM><BR/><BR/>The earth is always either cooling or heating. There are natural cycles that are caused by such things as ocean currents that are cycling between cooling and warming. Other things such as the sun burning hotter like it has been doing for about a decade now also have and effect. Volcano eruptions can also pump huge amounts of pollutants into the air. The earth probably has been in a heating cycle for a while and humans may contribute somewhat, but it is insignificant and perhaps has even been a good thing. The natural cycles will change and the earth will cool again. I have no objection to conservation and am all for a clean environment. However, I think it is foolish to spend trillions of dollars and ruin our economy over this hyped global warming hysteria.<BR/><BR/>Obama has the most liberal voting record in the senate and is basically a closet socialist. Staying in a church for twenty years where a minister preached and taught anti-American and racist principles does not speak well for his discernment, judgment, or character. I reject everything he stands for and unlike so many in America, I know where he stands on many issues.jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-80351155994135035942008-03-28T16:05:00.000-05:002008-03-28T16:05:00.000-05:00We have come quite a long way from Obama, and I st...We have come quite a long way from Obama, and I still don't really understand quite why you dislike him so much. He seems an 'all American' boy to me.<BR/><BR/>As far as Maalie's question about the ethnicity of Adam and Eve go, I would say they would have to be African, as the Olduvai Gorge in Kenya seems to have been the birthplace of man.<BR/><BR/>I am relieved that global warming isn't taking place. I have been very worried about it, and trying to do my own little bit about using less petrol, electricity, recycling all my paper, bottles, tins and cardboard. It is a relief to know that I don't have to struggle quite so much.lorenzothellamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10248039576046971460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-38733789708386327402008-03-28T16:04:00.000-05:002008-03-28T16:04:00.000-05:00Maalie,Point proven. You were never a Christian a...Maalie,<BR/>Point proven. You were never a Christian as Christians never become non-Christians. This is what I mean about your lack of understanding.<BR/><BR/>Christianity has been instrumental in founding universities and backing scientific research in the United States as well as Europe, and many great scientists past and present were devout Christians. Issac Newton, for example was also a theologian.<BR/><BR/>Maalie, you are firing blanks. I know you can do better than this.jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-11517192778104205052008-03-28T15:52:00.000-05:002008-03-28T15:52:00.000-05:00Jazzycat, I have to go now, I'm not dipping out of...Jazzycat, I have to go now, I'm not dipping out of the discussion, I will look in again next week. I understand why you deleted the comment, I ought not to have written that, it was not evidence-based.<BR/><BR/>Cheers.Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-77997065772951586682008-03-28T15:48:00.000-05:002008-03-28T15:48:00.000-05:00Maalie,You said....As usual, dear Jazzycat thinks ...Maalie,<BR/>You said....<EM>As usual, dear Jazzycat thinks he knows better than the world's elite scientists and merely resorts to false arguments like calling evidence "propaganda"</EM><BR/><BR/>I must insist that your ethical standards (honesty in this case) improve if you want to interact here. I have not called any evidence propaganda, but I have called using visuals of the calving of glaciers as evidence. Glacier calving is not evidence of global warming. It is evidence that glaciers are moving slowly toward the sea. Therefore, when CNN and others show it as evidence, then objective logical thinking people consider that perhaps they are in the business of propaganda rather than an objective presentation of all the opinions on the subject. Go to Glacier Bay National Park website and look at the history of glaciers receding from late 1700's to 1860's.jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-59424433259083460802008-03-28T15:44:00.000-05:002008-03-28T15:44:00.000-05:00>Your understanding of Christianity is severely de...><I>Your understanding of Christianity is severely deficient</I><BR/><BR/>I think it more likely that I understand it only too well. I was a 'Christian' until I was reborn when as a research student and my eyes were opened.<BR/><BR/>Also I infiltrated a Christian blog-ring posing as a young mother and I know what they talk about. I know how they home-school to prevent their darlings from the risk of exposure to "dangerous scientists". Is that what you people <I>really</I> want?Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-66363868938073507582008-03-28T15:38:00.000-05:002008-03-28T15:38:00.000-05:00>would one possibility be a self existent supreme ...><I>would one possibility be a self existent supreme being with super intelligence?</I><BR/><BR/>Of course that cannot be proved or disproved, so it is really not available for objective discussion. All I would say is that there is no evidence of the existence of such an entity and the probability that it exists is so minuscule as to be out of the frame for consideration.<BR/><BR/>It is just pushing the argument back one step and is a form of personal incredulity. "Super intelligence"? You mean like Superman or Wonderwoman?<BR/><BR/>But I repeat, the fact that we don't understand something NOW is not evidence that we won't one day. To attribute it all to a supernatural entity is just another way of saying you don't know either, but it may give you the comfort of an explanation of a sort. <BR/><BR/>Again, I say unto you, don't shoot the messenger. Take up the discussion with some of your own superb and world respected scientists.<BR/><BR/>To claim that all human diversity came about, and populated the corners of the world, in just one generation is pure fantasy (I'm afraid I have no option but to use that word now). Evidence is clear that <I>Homo sapiens</I> evolved from <I>Homo erectus</I> in Africa about 3 million years ago and during or after the Pleistocene revolution (tool making) the population grew and was able to migrate out of Africa, north into Europe and Arctic regions, and east into Asia. The remains of their cultures are numerous and have been precisely dated. By geographic isolation they genetically diverged into separate genotypes (much as Darwin's finches on the Galapagos Isles) and the process, accelerated by migrations to, continued. It is also so easy and obvious once you have the appropriate foundation science.<BR/><BR/>The evidence is there, it is tangible, I have seen it for myself and it's not going to go away.<BR/><BR/>And a pair of kangaroos didn't swim across the Indian Ocean from Australia to Asia, hop across the Himalayas to the Middle East <I>and back</I> to be saved by Noah. That notion is preposterous!Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-73939042766278358402008-03-28T15:32:00.000-05:002008-03-28T15:32:00.000-05:00Maalie,I said earlier that I was not going to allo...Maalie,<BR/>I said earlier that I was not going to allow mocking of the Christian religion. Your understanding of Christianity is severely deficient and I an not going to allow you to present it incorrectly in a mocking away. <BR/><BR/><STRONG>This is not open for debate</STRONG>jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-91596214311230462312008-03-28T15:16:00.000-05:002008-03-28T15:16:00.000-05:00Maalie,This is where you must begin!!!!Where did a...Maalie,<BR/>This is where you must begin!!!!<BR/><BR/><STRONG>Where did all the matter/energy of the universe come from????</STRONG><BR/><BR/>Your answer is and I quote, "Frankly, I don't know"<BR/><BR/>Since you don't know, would one possibility be a self existent supreme being with super intelligence? <STRONG>Would you concede that as a possibility?</STRONG> Such a being could have possibly used evolution and all the other things you assert. While I do not believe it, it is possible that a supreme being could have done that is it not?<BR/><BR/>Evidently, Christians and cosmologists agree that something must have the power of self-existence in and of itself. If it is matter/energy, then why is it changing? Why is it in a state of becoming rather than in a state of being? Why was the law of inertia violated with the big bang?jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-91450844979844300192008-03-28T14:38:00.000-05:002008-03-28T14:38:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-28387717903826152322008-03-28T14:24:00.000-05:002008-03-28T14:24:00.000-05:00>Where did all the matter/energy of the universe c...><I>Where did all the matter/energy of the universe come from????</I><BR/><BR/>You have missed a component. There is growing acceptance among cosmologists that there is a time/energy/matter continuum. Frankly, I don;t know, but then your grandfather presumably did not know about computers, moon walking or DNA (let alone the human genome).<BR/><BR/>To admit that we don't have the answer to something and just to say "It must be God" is just another aspect of personal incredulity. Maybe a time/energy/matter continuum may always have been there. May be our brains are not sufficiently evolved to <I>ever</I> understand it. <BR/><BR/>It is not my place here to explain scientific processes (e.g. the evolution of intelligence) I have been doing that all my career. It would take a semester of lectures (on top of a foundation course in science). If you are truly interested, try googling, there is plenty out there. But I know you won't because you have already made up your mind from an archaic book. In England we call that prejudice.Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-26622220048328049842008-03-28T14:22:00.000-05:002008-03-28T14:22:00.000-05:00Maalie, I cannot let you get away with your spurio...Maalie, I cannot let you get away with your spurious attack on His Holiness the Dalai Lama. (one l if you don't mind. The Buddhist certainly do not think of him as a God, but a very holy and devout man.<BR/><BR/>I once heard the then Archbishop of Cape Town, the Very Reverent Desmond Tutu say 'I am puzzled which Bible people are reading when people say politics and religion do not mix'. Of course Jesus was political. He fought for the rights of the poor, the meek, the downtrodden, the women, the Samaritons, the ill, the despised etc. etc. It was that that really upset the Romans.lorenzothellamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10248039576046971460noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-84347250391601229492008-03-28T14:16:00.000-05:002008-03-28T14:16:00.000-05:00Lorenzo: Try reading this - theReport of the Inter...Lorenzo: Try reading <A HREF="http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-syr.htm " REL="nofollow">this</A> - the<BR/>Report of the International Panel on Climate Change. The world's international top climatologists, glaciologists, geophysicists etc. consider there is a 90% likelihood of anthropogenic global warming (that is, due to man-made greenhouse gas emissions).<BR/><BR/>As usual, dear Jazzycat thinks he knows better than the world's elite scientists and merely resorts to false arguments like calling evidence "propaganda" (a favourite with deniers of all kinds). And of course, this:<BR/><BR/>><I>Wow, genetics in the first grade!</I><BR/><BR/><B>Ignorance</B>!!!<BR/><BR/>><I>you ran away from the discussion like a coward running from a bully</I><BR/><BR/><B>Ad hominem</B>!!!<BR/><BR/><BR/>><I>evolution must make an even greater leap of faith when it explains why there is something instead of nothing.</I><BR/><BR/><B>Personal incredulity</B>!!!<BR/><BR/>Neither your High School debating society nor mine would have permitted cheap tricks like that. Once again these tricks are take life blood of those who seek to deny and ridicule the <B>evidence</B>.<BR/><BR/>I don't know whether to laugh or cry, but it does give a new depth to the meaning of "PATHETIC"!!!<BR/><BR/>My dear Jazzycat, the evidence won't disappear just because you don't like it; it grows stronger by the month, the week, the day...<BR/><BR/>C'mon Jazzycat, you can do better than that...Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-13559431834360057492008-03-28T14:09:00.000-05:002008-03-28T14:09:00.000-05:00Maalie,As an atheistic evolution believing humanis...Maalie,<BR/>As an atheistic evolution believing humanist you are asking me to beleive the following:<BR/><BR/>1. matter came from nothing without any cause.<BR/><BR/>2. this matter exploded (big bang) into chaos and confusion.<BR/><BR/>3. From this chaos and confusion order happened.<BR/><BR/>4. From non-life, life happened.<BR/><BR/>5. From non-intelligence, intelligence happened.<BR/><BR/>To this scenerio I basically add a supreme being (a self-existent, uncaused cause) and you accuse me of personal incredulity. I give the explanation for the impossible scenerio that you present and you say I am the one that will not believe. Evolution does not answer the question you must answer and in fact have refused to answer. Let me ask it again in Bold face: <STRONG>Where did all the matter/energy of the universe come from????</STRONG>jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-35149569597079919072008-03-28T13:43:00.000-05:002008-03-28T13:43:00.000-05:00Loren,Christ was not political. He was not a tad ...Loren,<BR/>Christ was not political. He was not a tad left wing or any other wing. <BR/><BR/>He came to earth to save his people from their sins. There is no other way to be saved to eternal life other than through faith in Jesus Christ. His kingdom was and still is not of this world. His ethical teachings are about how born again Christians (the only kind) who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit should conduct themselves and pursue holiness and sanctification.jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-23550143242315699412008-03-28T13:36:00.000-05:002008-03-28T13:36:00.000-05:00Loren,I most certainly do not believe the hysteria...Loren,<BR/>I most certainly do not believe the hysteria of man made global warming causing doom to planet earth. Check out my links on this blog if you have an open mind. Yes the earth's climate cools and warms and the earth started warming from a little ice age a couple hundred years ago and that is why the glaciers in Glacier Bay receded about 70 miles from late 1700's until around 1870's. This certainly was not caused by fossil fuels although glaciers calving is shown constantly on propaganda T.V. programs as proof of man made global warming. There are also mini-cycles and that is why the media has warned of global cooling and warming in cylcles about 6 times since the late 1800's. The latest was the warning of global cooling in the 1970's by many of the scientific journals that Maalie puts so much stock in. The fact that the sun started burning hotter about ten years ago has also had an effect. By far the largest green house gas we have is water vapor (clouds). The amount of CO2 is insignificant in comparison. <BR/><BR/>Global cooling would be far more dangerous to the production of food on this planet. Why is assumed that the earth's overall temperature is perfect as it is now? A little warming would increase growing seasons, help people and animals remain warm and move further north. Even the alarmist exaggerated reports show only a four to 12 inch or so rise in the sea level in the long term.<BR/><BR/>Check out some of my links......jazzycathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16720471765591930568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-71192891289931110142008-03-28T12:59:00.000-05:002008-03-28T12:59:00.000-05:00Mark, maybe you didn't know, but none of your bril...Mark, maybe you didn't know, but none of your brilliant American scientists (nor those of ours in Europe) - at least those who publish their evidence in the mainstream peer-reviewed scientific literature, appear to have any evidence for a "judgement day", or for the existence of God. And in my more modest career of research in ecology, I have found none either.<BR/><BR/>I think the bible was written to explain certain phenomena that could not be explained in any other way. Now, some 2000 years on, our understanding of the processes involved in nature do not require us to consider the supernatural to explain the origins and development of life on earth.<BR/><BR/>Who would have thought we would be able to write out the whole of the human genome! Wonderful, isn't it?<BR/><BR/>By the way, Mark, what ethnicity do <I>you</I> think that Adam and Eve were supposed to have had?<BR/><BR/>I know that Jazzycat thinks I am "mocking" but that is not strictly true. Questions like this (and those damned inter-continental swimming kangaroos) really do bug me. Daniel tried hard to put an explanation, but it seemed to me to be no more than speculation (note, I avoided saying fantasy). To have built a vessel as substantial as the ark is supposed to have been, would place it post-neolithic times. That is incredibly recent in the history of upright man on earth.Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-39084787101564009452008-03-28T12:44:00.000-05:002008-03-28T12:44:00.000-05:00"The bible can mean anything you want it to mean."..."The bible can mean anything you want it to mean."<BR/><BR/>On judgement day it will mean only what God intended it to mean. Where will you stand on that day, Jim?mark piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13882538938829765324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-19790169668255702602008-03-28T12:32:00.000-05:002008-03-28T12:32:00.000-05:00Don't shoot the messenger, Mark. I only read the o...Don't shoot the messenger, Mark. I only read the overwhelming evidence presented by some of your brilliant American scientists (and of course, some of ours in Europe too!).<BR/><BR/>The evidence won't go away, it just get more and more incontrovertible as our understanding and awareness of the natural world improves. (What do you say about that link I put up above?). I felt I was born again and saw the world in a new light when the scales fell from my eyes and emerged from my delusion. I wish the same for you.<BR/><BR/>Did you know that the Dalai Llama (the spiritual leader of the Buddhists in Tibet) is considered to be a God?<BR/><BR/>The bible can mean anything you want it to mean.Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-37663938861095067172008-03-28T11:46:00.000-05:002008-03-28T11:46:00.000-05:00Or perhaps it's time for a fool to repent!Also, in...Or perhaps it's time for a fool to repent!<BR/><BR/>Also, in John 8 we see Jesus teach that before you can understand spiritual truth you must believe it. The things of the Bible, its teaching, are understood only when the Spirit of God illuminates the otherwise spiritually dead mind.mark piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13882538938829765324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-20353593899897705912008-03-28T11:30:00.000-05:002008-03-28T11:30:00.000-05:00jazzycat, dear Jazzycat, more recent hominid fossi...jazzycat, dear Jazzycat, more <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4187991.stm" REL="nofollow">recent hominid fossils</A> discovered.<BR/><BR/>The evidence won't go away Jazzycat. Whilst the bible gets more and more outdated and outmoded, the scientific evidence gets stronger, and stronger, and stronger.... and it won't go away, it just keeps coming...<BR/><BR/>Perhaps it is time for you to rethink...Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-394351781152627902008-03-28T11:11:00.000-05:002008-03-28T11:11:00.000-05:00>other than to default to your bible of peer revie...><I>other than to default to your bible of peer reviewed scientific literature?</I><BR/><BR/>Because, my dear Jazzycat, that is hard <I>evidence</I> which is more secure than arguments based on ignorance, <I>ad hominem</I> and personal incredulity that are so beloved of you.<BR/><BR/>You appear to say something like "I cannot believe the world is as it is without a creator". That is not an argument, that is personal incredulity. The peer-reviewed scientific literature is in the public domain, for all to see, criticise and advance. It isn't anything like the bible because it is not embedded within delusion and doctrine.<BR/><BR/>So please tell me, Jazzycat, exactly what ethnicity were Adam and Eve, do you suppose? White European? Mongolian? Black African (Ooops, there are several ethnic groups within that); Australian Aborigines? New Zealand Maoris? Indigenous Patagonians? Amazonian Pygmies? Jungle Folk of Indonesia? Eskimos? Laps? Red Indians? Or one of the 30 odd ethnic groups found in China?<BR/><BR/>C'mon Jazzycat, spill the beans, they must have been <I>something</I>? And then tell me how, starting with just two individuals of your chosen ethnic group, they diversified into what (or whom) we see now, <B>in only a couple of thousand years</B>? Even a foundation biology student would laugh at the idea! Not to mention (again) those inter-continental swimming kangaroos! LOL!<BR/><BR/>Mark, I suggest you do a little reading.Maaliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13444125754967223180noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8808216803274964547.post-83265642335056045672008-03-28T10:02:00.000-05:002008-03-28T10:02:00.000-05:00Wayne,Is it not written that the fool has said in ...Wayne,<BR/><BR/>Is it not written that the fool has said in his heart that there is no God? Is it not written that fallen man does not like to retain God in his knowledge?<BR/><BR/>So...<BR/><BR/>If one fool teaches evil-lution, and his works are "peer reviewed", meaning other fools go along with him in his folly, does that make him less a fool?mark piersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13882538938829765324noreply@blogger.com